Monday, December 21, 2009

Guest Post: Who Is the Greatest Cyclist of All Time? The Ultimate Argument Settler.



Here I go with my second post for C.I. Hope you enjoy it, even if it's on the long side.

Every sports fan out there, regardless of the sport they follow, has had the inevitable, "Who Is the Greatest of All Times" conversation at least once. They will talk about Babe Ruth vs. McGwire, Pele vs. Maradona, Johnny Unitas vs. Joe Montana or Sachin Tendulkar vs. Brian Lara (I don't know shit about cricket, I just looked these dudes up on some website). The argument takes a turn for the worse when people realize that different eras meant different ways of playing the sport. Different scoring systems, better, more accurate officiating, different rules and other factors. Another aspect that may influence our opinion on the matter is personal preference. For example, I think Kaka is better than Lionel Messi, not because he's a better player, but because, overall, I don't like Argentinean players. Many standards may be set to determine "the best of all times", but you can find bias and cracks in all of them.

We have the same issue in cycling. Since I was a kid I've heard the Coppi vs. Merckx debate. Later Hinault came into the picture. Oh, boy! By the time Armstrong and Indurain had done their thing, I had stopped caring about the "best of all time" and was content with just enjoying the sport. But, just like the story of the first time you got drunk and puked on your shoes, the debate kept creeping up in conversations. With most Americans who know shit about cycling, the conversation usually goes like this:
Them: Ah, you ride a bike?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Like Lance Armstrong?
Me: Yeah.
Them: He had cancer, you know?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Testicular cancer.
Me: Yeah.
Them: He won the Tour of France a bunch of times.
Me: Yeah.
Them: He's the best of all time.
Me: Yeah.
Them: So, do you wear those funny shoes that clip into the pedals?
Me: Yeah.

Why bother arguing with someone who wouldn't even know the difference between a mountain bike and a road bike. These people think Armstrong won the Tour 23 times, riding a Huffy and have no idea that it's a 3 week race. Fuck them, I'll let them think whatever they want to, and let them be.

Some people know a little bit about cycling and when they find out I'm into it, they'll come up and...

Them: Eddy Merckx is the best of all time. Anyone who knows cycling will tell you that.
Me: Yeah.
Them: There was this guy from Spain who won the Tour of France a few times.
Me: Yeah.
Them: There's also a Tour in Italy, I think. Armstrong never won that. He only wins in France
Me: Yeah.
Them: Everyone who doesn't know cycling thinks Armstrong is the best. He's SO not.
Me: Yeah.
Them: They make bikes out of carbon now.
Me: Yeah.

The conversation with someone who knows a fair amount about the topic usually will go like this:
Them: Who do you think is the best of all time?
Me: I don't know, it's hard to say.
Them: Well, it HAS to be Anquetil, because his style was awesome, or Merckx because he won the most Grand Tours, or Bahamontes because he was the best climber of all times, or Zabel, because he won so may stages.
Me: Sure.
Them: Everyone who doesn't know cycling thinks Armstrong is the best. He's SO not.
Me: Yeah.
Them: I have a Cervelo S3.
Me: I need a drink. Now. Bye.

Unless I have a few hours to discuss the topic in depth with a knowledgeable, preferably friendly and humorous person, I just avoid the argument altogether. I avoid it mostly because I don't know the answer. What's NOT pointless, however, is reading about it in this blog. Why? Because yours truly; The SkullKrusher (omnipotent master of all things cycling) has come up with THE ultimate way to once and for all decide who the best cyclist of all times is. No, it's not based on the overall ridiculousness of your haircut (we all know Laurent Brochard would win hands down), or based on how much they look like a starving Ethiopian covered in flour (Rasmussen would win that, of course). My system actually comes from a much, much more reliable standard: Mathematics!

In order to understand my rating scale you must first know where it came from and how I developed it. Let me start by saying that I'm a complete nerd and have no friends (that's actually not true at all, but it gives this post a little more flavor, so bare with me). I am recently single, and just received a partially torn meniscus from a very unfriendly patch of pavement I met during a ride to see my ex, in order to try to get her back. It didn't work. You can laugh now. Since I can't ride and I have no one to hang out with, I'm left with plenty of time to think about the aforementioned Merckx versus Coppi debate. Maybe Coppi was the better overall cyclist, but since his career was split in half by WWII, we will never know how many more races he would have won. The reality is that Coppi, at the end of the day, only won 7 Grand Tours and Merckx won eleven. But does that settle the debate? I mean we all know that cycling is about a lot more than the three Grand Tours. For starters, what about Paris-Roubaix? It's a tough race. It may not make De Vlaeminck (4 wins) the best cyclist of all time, but classics and other races have to be included if we're to come up with a rating system (and thus a consensus), right? Well, Roubaix can't be worth as much as a Grand Tour win, but it's worth more than winning La Fleche Wallonne. As I started to figure this all out, things started to get interesting. I started to make a list of all the races that should be included in the equation. I figured out how much each one would be worth. After hours and hours (and I mean hours and hours) of internet research and old school pen/paper action, I came up with what I think is a fair rating system. I believe it to be fair and balanced and if you disagree with me, you can kiss my ass. For the record, said ass will probably be sitting on the couch, where it usually is these days.


The criteria
I decided to only include road cyclists, whose careers happened mostly after the 1930s. Before then it was way too easy to cheat by hanging on to cars, getting a lift from a guy on a mule, or spreading nails on the road, etc. I'm not saying that type of shit hasn't happened since, but it was much more common then. Also, most of us don't know those names, so it wouldn't be as much fun.

The point system
After lots and lots of work, I came up with this point system:

Grand tour GC
Win: 9 pts.
2nd: 3 pts.
3rd: 1 pt.

Grand tour jersey competition
Mountain/points/sprint etc.: 2 pts.

Grand tour stages
Stage win: 1 pt.

Other stage races GC*
Dauphine Libere: 2 pts.
Paris-Niece: 2 pts.
Tirreno Adriatico: 2 pts.
Vuelta al Pais Vasco 2 pts.

Classics
Milan-San Remo: 3 pts.
Paris-Roubaix: 3 pts.
Tour of Flanders: 3 pts.
Amstel Gold: 3 pts.
Liege-Bastogne-Liege: 3 pts.
Clasica San Sebastian: 1 pt.
Giro di Lombardia: 1 pt.
Fleche Wallonne: 1 pt.

Other shit
Gold medal for TT or road in the Olympics: 3 pts.
TT or Road World Championship: 3 pts.
Hour Record: 1 pt.
Trofeo Baracchi: 1 pt.

*the reason I only gave 2 points for a smaller stage race and 3 to certain classics, is because most teams use these stage races for preparation and training, making them "less important" in the calendar. Some of the Classics, though, are races that teams prepare for.


The Results
Here I give you the Top 25 Cyclists of All Times, according to my most awesome super nerdy, time consuming, headache giving system in the world:



1. Eddy Merckx - 218 pts.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that Merckx is number 1. With 11 Grand Tours wins, 3 World Championships and 7 Milan-San Remos, The Cannibal is by far the best, and the most prolific cyclist of all time. His sideburns were also the most powerful in cycling history.



2. Bernard Hinault - 149 pts.
The Badger won all 3 Grand Tours, a slew of Classics and he was World Champion. Why is Hinault crying in this picture? Two reasons, because the sponsors made him wear a headband, and because he knew he'd eventually end up working as a bouncer.



3. Fausto Coppi - 127 pts.
Coppi won the Giro and the Tour in the same year twice – in 1949 and 1952. He never raced in La Vuelta. He had a huge nose.



4. Miguel Induarin - 120 pts.
One of my favorite riders of all time, Indurain won the Tour 5 years in a row and did the Tour/Giro double in 1992 and 1993. Oddly enough he never won his home Grand Tour: La Vuelta. "Miguelon", as he was known in Spain, is perhaps the only cyclist in history who could give Sean Kelly a run for his money in the contest of who had the least personality off the bike.



5. Jaques Anquetil - 109 pts.
The smooth-riding Frenchman was the first to win the Tour five times in a row, and won the Grand Prix of Nations an impressive 9 times. He was the first cyclist to sport a pompadour to lower his aerodynamic drag.



6. Gino Bartali - 105 pts.
Just 4 points behind Anquetil comes the beloved Italian who is better known for being second to Coppi, than his actual palmares.



7. Tony Rominger - 88 pts.
Big gap between "The Greats" (1 through 6) and everyone else. Edging Armstrong by only a bit, Rominger is the first in the "Not So Good" class. The Swiss dominated the Vuelta in the early 90s, and broke the hour record (HPVA/WHPVA) twice in 1994.



8. Lance Armstrong - 87 pts.
Now, when randoms ask you if Lance is "the best", you can tell them, "Nah, he's like the 8th best."



9. Laurent Fignon - 82 pts.
I know he has the whole cancer thing going on now, but I could never get myself to like this pompous asshole. Note the small gap between him and Armstrong.



10. Mario Cipollini - 72 pts.
Everyone's favorite flamboyant sexy-man, Cipo never came even close to winning a Grand Tour, but won over 50 stages in them.



11. Roger De Vlaeminick - 71 pts.
Monsieur Paris-Roubaix won The Hell of the North a record four times and Tirreno-Adriatico a record six. He also won Milan-San Remo, the Tour of Flanders, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, Giro di Lombardia and La Fleche Wallone. I was hoping this guy was gonna be higher on the list, but we can all agree he is the King of the Classics. He was also the king of wearing chaps during training rides. Seriously.



12. Laurent Jalabert - 69 pts.
Sixty-nine points... Ha ha! Sixty-nine... In 1997, Jaja won the ITT World Championship, Paris-Niece, the Giro di Lombardia and La Fleche Wallonne. Not a bad year. Is he wearing a beeper around his wrist in this picture? Was he checking it and that's why he crashed? We'll never know.



13. Felice Gimondi - 67 pts.
The Phoenix Gimondi was only the second cyclist in history to win all 3 major Tours.



14. Sean Kelly - 62 pts.
Sure, he has the personality of a cinder block, but this fucker could race. His Paris-Roubaix wins are truly awesome, dare I say "epic" races.



15. Francesco Moser - 60 pts.
One of my childhood idols, he won Paris-Roubaix three times and broke Merckx's hour record in 1984.



16. Louis Bobet - 59 pts.
The Frenchman won the Tour 3 times and multiple spring Classics during the 1950s.



17. Erik Zabel - 56 pts.
This beast of a racer won the Green Jersey in the Tour six fucking times. Sometimes he got sad (as seen above), because his haircut was so ridiculous.



18. Fiorenzo Magni - 55 pts.
Three Giros and three Tours of Flanders in the 1950s.



19. Alessandro Petacchi - 51 pts.
Another sprinter in the top 20. Only 4 stage wins in the Tour, but over 20 in the Giro and 19 in the Vuelta. He's probably going to win a few more Giro stages, but being in a crappy team, I doubt he'll ever go back to France or Spain.


20. Greg LeMond - 50 pts.
Love him or hate him, the jackass did win the Tour 3 times, was World Champion twice and had the balls to call out His Majesty King Armstrong.



21. Alberto Contador - 49 pts.
At age 27 and years before he retires, El Pistolero has already won all 3 Grand Tours. He is already in 21st place and will probably break into the top 10 in the next 2 seasons.



22. Jan Jansen - 48 pts.
First Dutch to win the Tour, World Champion in 1964 and won Roubaix in 1967. Nice glasses, chief! And nice pigeons, too.



23. Charly Gaul - 47 pts.
Better known in the cyclo-cross world, this Luxembourger won the Giro twice and the Tour once.



24. Jan Ullrich - 44 pts.
The eternal runner-up, he always wished that his first name was Lars. He also wished that his freckles weren't so creepy, and that he didn't get too fat in the off season.



25. Marco Pantani - 43 pts
Weeeeee, Pantani comes in at 25, despite how many bandanas have sold worldwide after his death.


Other people of note I did for fun

Federico Bahamontes - 42 pts.
Pedro Delgado - 42 pts.
Robetro Heras - 41 pts.
Denis Menchov - 41 pts.
Jan Raas - 40 pts.
Paolo Bettini - 35 pts.
Stephen Roche - 32 pts.
Luis Herrera - 31 pts.
Tom Boonen - 28 pts.
Alexander Vinokourov - 28 pts.
Fabian Cancellara - 27 pts.
Damiano Cunego - 24 pts.
Mark Cavendish - 19 pts.
Ivan Basso - 19 pts.
Claudio Chiapucci - 19 pts.
Thor Hushovd - 15 pts.
Cadel Evans - 11 pts.
Andy Schleck - 9 pts.
Iban Mayo - 8 pts.
Fabio Parra - 8 pts.
Alessandro Ballan - 7 pts.
Fränk Schleck - 5 pts.
Jens Voigt - 5 pts.
Mauricio Soler - 3 pts.
Sylvain Chavanel - 1 pt.
Wim Vansevenant - 0 pts. (only man to finish as lanterne rouge at The Tour three times)


So, there you have it. What did we learn today? Well, nothing, really. I'm sure you all probably had a good idea of who'd be in the Top 10, but at least, I settled the argument with hard evidence. Everyone will now follow my system and no one will ever disagree on the topic ever again. Tell your friends.

Did we forget anyone? Did we get the point system wrong? Will this help you settle arguments with your uncle Earl when you're back home for Christmas?


75 comments:

  1. Jan Ullrich: all time favourite cyclist. Arguably the most naturally gifted cyclist ever, if he wasn't so god damn lazy and unlucky.

    Excellent system Skullkrusher. I'm slightly in awe of the amount of time you have invested. I just start ranting about Jan Ullrich and how legendary his '97 victory was.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Great list, arguably sound logic, I need to contemplate, how about honorable mention for Major Lance?

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think you're probably right about Ullrich. His talent was amazing, but he seldom applied himself (I sound like my third grade teacher.) His weight gains in the offseason remain legendary.

    One thing the system doesn't take into consideration, and can't really be quantified are things like armstrong winning the tour 7 times.....i a row. that's another level. feats like winning a major classic AND a grand tour in one season...or TWO grand tours in one season...that's just insane. having such good form at different points in the season is just sick.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Death;
    i did spend a lot of time on this, but im such a loser, i have plenty of that these days and after i memorized the point system it became a little faster. my fear after a while became to forget to do someone, so i started looking to see anyone who'd wan a grand tour more than once or any of the major classics and did them. one thing i learnt is that wikipedia is not very reliable, so looking for palmares in other places became the biggest pain. the whole thing took about 9 nights and a sunday.

    Lucho;
    i thought about giving "bonus points" for things like more than one classic a season and stuff like that, but i decided against that simply cuz it'd make it too complicated. believe me, tho, i thought about it. the main reason i decided against at the end was cuz i think its way better to win roubaix twice (for example) 6 seasons apart than win it 3 years in a row. you know? whatever. it's done, you all better deal with it!

    ReplyDelete
  5. D'oh, Major Taylor--who the fuck is Major Lance--isn't that a cheese cracker.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I thought you meant taylor. ooops. freudian slip? you love armstrong don't you? admit it!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Too much here to comment on all of it's awesomeness. Petacchi and Zabel's photos are awesome. I think the best race to watch ever would be something between Indurain, Coppi, and Merckx. Also, are there no awards for the perpetual second place Tony Rominger? When is his silver commemorative coin going to come out.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I realize this is based on the men's Tours and Classics and all, but I think Beryl Burton also deserves at least an honorable mention here. Particularly since she actually held the men's and women's 12-hour TT records for a period of time.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "When is his silver commemorative coin going to come out." LULZ!!!

    ReplyDelete
  10. dhd, if i wanted to talk about broads, i'd post on the cooking light blog, aight?


    kidding.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I adore your photos. I'm just sayin'.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Nancy,
    Thank you for checking in. Keep up the work on your blog...I'm glad someone is giving props to the lanterne rouge
    http://tdflr.blogspot.com/

    ReplyDelete
  13. And where's the Cooking Light link, btw, for us broads?

    And Wim Vansevenant rulz.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Nancy, I was totally SO kidding about the "broad" comment! Please don't tell my sister (or mom) I said that. They'd kick my ass! :)

    ReplyDelete
  15. I know. :-) Not that I don't need some Cooking Light.... Chicken Rasmussen could probably give us all a few dieting tips (water on your cereal, anyone?)

    I keep going back to your photos and comments here and laughing. Alberto's expression when swimming with the special needs dolphins is hilarious.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Dolphins have sharp teeth. I'm just saying...

    ReplyDelete
  17. Poor Alberto can't catch a break...not from humans, not from dolphins...the guy is doomed.

    ReplyDelete
  18. This just in: Contador has changed his fingerbang salute and is cavorting with pigeons. Please see BSNYC for more details. Will this change the results Skullkrusher?

    ReplyDelete
  19. LeMond won three Tours and three world championships, and you've got him behind Cipollini, Fignon, Jalabert, and Rominger...?

    You guys are fucking retards.

    Thanks,
    Burt

    ReplyDelete
  20. You can't argue with mathematics. I mean, perhaps stage wins should be worth less? Even still, he won so damn many...that it gets hard to play those down. Lemond was certainly more multi-faceted, Cipollini's lack of mountain climbing skills makes Cavendish look like Soler.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Worlds Road Race should have a lot more points than the Olympics, pro-road cyclists competing in the Olympics is a pretty recent development.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Fantastic list.

    I wish there was away to add in points for things that are less quantifiable. Like entertainment value and coolness. That way the sprinters would have a better chance on the list.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I also wanted to add that I didn't see any points totalled for Ned Overend's mustasche or mole, what gives?

    ReplyDelete
  24. Oh my god that mole.....I know nothing about mountain biking...but that mole, and Tinker Juarez' hair are simply beyond me.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Burt, I thought the fact that I even did this in the first place, pretty much sealed the "I'm a retard" argument, no?

    pasta-boy, you're right about the Olympics, BUT a few of the big ones back in the day did participate in the olympics as amateurs, and I did include the Trofeo Baracchi, which guys today can't win :)

    Cannibal, if coolness would have been added, we all know Cadel would have taken the cake, right?

    ReplyDelete
  26. Oh, wait, I misspoke, I meant Cadel would take if we factored in absolute retardedness, not coolness! Sorry, 'bout that.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I can't help it, watching the sprinters at the tours is always my favorite part. I was a huge McEween fan. He was so cocky it was amazing, (though I'm not sure if that was because he was a sprinter or an Aussie). the head block against O'Grady, the relegation and then first place. Now that's entertainment.
    http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/austin_murphy/07/22/top10/p1_mcewen_0722.jpg

    Greatest cyclist, not even close. Most entertaining, more likely.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Cannibal,
    You are a great example of how varied cycling fans are. I myself don't love sprinters, their plight or flat stages. For that reason, Lemond to me could be considered more important than Cipo...but that's my taste. Give me a guy who is a climber, and will never be a GC contender, and I'm glued to the TV. At the same time, the classics are fantastic, and perhaps more fun than grand tours. But that's me. For the record, something like Hushovd going nuts to prove a point at the Tour, and climbing as a sprinter...that was complete bliss. beautiful.

    ReplyDelete
  29. *insert gratuitous clever Cadel slam here*

    I wanted to snark about Cadel here yesterday but I forgot, thanks for reminding me. I hate that he won Worlds.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I actually love that he wan Worlds, just cuz he's such a weirdo! His twitter was SO funny the rest of that week. He's SO entertaining!

    Cannibal, I just did McEwen and he's got 30 pts...

    ReplyDelete
  31. plus 200 pts for entertainment value, he's #1 above Merckx! WOW! haha!

    ReplyDelete
  32. damn you cadel for birsmirching our entire nation!

    ReplyDelete
  33. It's okay Death Race, how do you think some Americans feel about Armstrong and Lemond? They'll always have Hampsten though.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Hey SkullKrusher do you do requests? What about everyone's favorite Russian, Viatcheslav Ekimov? Here is his wiki with results:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekimov

    ReplyDelete
  35. Just for everyone's enjoyment, here's Cadel's "Don't touch me!" video clip again:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikzgWE3t0A

    ReplyDelete
  36. we always have michael rogers, one of those 'coulda have but is busy getting injured'

    ReplyDelete
  37. ...who gives a rat's ass...the "conversations" were fucking great...

    ReplyDelete
  38. Are you sure that picture of Petacchi isn't actually a picture of Rene Hasselbacher? Or did they both crash, rip up their shorts, and then hold their shorts over their butts?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Just checked...yes, that Hasselbacher pic comes up when you google Petacchi, but look closely--Petacchi never raced for Gerolsteiner.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Your rating system is obviously skewed. Jens should be #1.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hi,
    I don't think that the track rider you pictured with Francesco Moser is Francesco.
    For me he looks like Dietrich Thurau.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hey, what about:

    - Raymond Poulidor; (won 8 GT stages, '61 Milan-San Remo, '63 Fleche-Wallone, '64 Vuelta; '66 and '69 Dauphine, '72 and '73 Paris-Nice, 2nd TDF three times and third 5 times);

    - Joop Zoetemelk (won 10 GT stages, '68 Olympic TTT, '71 Vuelta KOM jersey, '73, '74 and '79 Paris-Nice; '76 Fleche-Wallone, '79 Vuelta, '80 TDF, '85 Worlds, '87 Amstel Gold; 2nd in TDF six times); or

    - Hennie Kuiper (won 5 GT stages, '72 Olympic RR, '75 World RR, '81 Tour of Flanders and Tour of Lombardi, '83 Paris-Roubaix, '85 Milan-San Remo; 2nd in 1977 TDF)?

    Not to mention RIK VAN LOOY (won 37 GT stages, '58 MSR, '59 Tour of Lombardia, '60 and '61 World RR, '61, '62 and '65 Paris-Roubaix; '59 and '62 Tour of Flanders, '61 Leige-Bastogne-Liege, '68 Fleche-Wallone PLUS 3rd in '65 TDF and won 4 GT jerseys).

    To paraphrase the always-eloquent Mr. Hoovis: You guys are effing developmentally disabled.

    ReplyDelete
  43. This ranking system passes the main test -- it produces a list in which Merckx, Hinault and Coppi occupy the top slots. By the way, Hinault isn't crying in that photo. He's contemplating how best to kick your ass for that display of cheek.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Hi!

    I love bikes too, but I stop riding them cuz I almost die once I was having fun ... heheheh
    Thanks for sharing

    ReplyDelete
  45. Not a single guy from USSR... Olympic statistics?

    ReplyDelete
  46. interesting system, great pics & dito captions
    this Polish guy has an even more intricate ranking system at cyclingranking.com: Daniel Marszalek. With race importance changing over time.
    Merckx 1, no discussion. Sean Kelly is second. Lance doesn't even make his top 20...
    No recent riders in top 10, specialism is making it more difficult i guess

    ReplyDelete
  47. If an athlet, who never won the Tour the France is placed in front of Lance Armstrong, then there is a great mistake in the point system! If the Vuelta gets 9 points, the Tour the France hast to get 15 points, or even more. Also TT-Championshsip is not the same as Road-Championshsip!

    ReplyDelete
  48. In your point system Joop Zoetemelk got 66 Points and is ranked on 14.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Armstrong got in your system 95 (not 87) points overall:

    63 - 7x Tour Win
    22 - 22x Win Tour-Stages
    4 - 2x Dauphine Libere
    3 - World Championship
    2 - San Seb. & Fleche Wallone
    1 - 3rd Place Tour

    ReplyDelete
  50. you forgot freddy maertens! 13 stage wins in a single vuelta, out of 19.

    ReplyDelete
  51. ooohhhh, Maertens! you're right. I had the honor of meeting him earlier this year. wonderful guy.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Agree with the top 3, but why is the Amstel Gold Race worth 3 points and the Giro di Lombardia only 1, while the latter is one of the five monuments? Also, a WC TT (or OS) isn't worth as much as a title on the normal race.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Respect, amazing effort and fakkin funny too! Coppi will always be the coolest tho, if only for this:

    Coppi was often said to have introduced "modern" methods to cycling, particularly his diet. Gino Bartali established that some of those methods included taking drugs, which were not then against the rules.

    Bartali and Coppi appeared on television revues and sang together, Bartali singing about "The drugs you used to take" as he looked at Coppi. Coppi spoke of the subject in a television interview:

    Question: Do cyclists take la bomba (amphetamine)?
    Answer: Yes, and those who claim otherwise, it's not worth talking to them about cycling.
    Question: And you, did you take la bomba?
    Answer: Yes. Whenever it was necessary.
    Question: And when was it necessary?
    Answer: Almost all the time!

    ReplyDelete
  54. FANTASTIC LIST DUDE!!! Pics are funny as hell too. I think your system, in fact the entire entry, exhibits genius. Pleased to see Gimondi and Kelly accurately placed (ie. not in the top 10). And just as fittingly, my personal favorite, the great De Vlaeminick, places very high. Saw some dudes post on Zoetemelk and Maertens but I'm too lazy to run the numbers myself. I know they were badasses though. Effin' cool dude. - Bosbefok Texan

    ReplyDelete
  55. Oh, and you're very correct. The Cannibal did have extremely, extremely powerful sideburns. - Bosbefok Texan

    ReplyDelete
  56. Scheisse, I mispelled De Vlaeminck just like you did. - Bosbefok Texan

    ReplyDelete
  57. ot well known, little reputation
    Postgraduate and mature undergrad only
    A bit out of town on the other side of Parkers Piece, and no other colleges around. Most student who live in the area are at Anglia Ruskin uni (campus nearby).
    Pembroke Pines graduation gowns

    ReplyDelete
  58. I get 93 points for Sean Kelly. That would place him 6th on this list

    Vuelta GC x 1 = 9
    Points x 4 = 8
    Stages x 16 = 16

    Le Tour
    Points x 4 = 8
    Sprints x 3 = 6
    Stages x 5 = 5

    Paris Nice x 7 = 14

    Vuelta al Pais Vasco x 3 = 6

    Milan-San Remo x 2 = 6
    Paris-Roubaix x 2 = 6
    Liege-Bastogne-Liege x 2 = 6
    Giro di Lombardia x 3 = 3


    Obviously he has won other classic races and smaller stage races(Tour de Suisse x 2, Volta a Catalunya x 2 etc.) race series (UCI World Cup, Pernod Prestige International) but I only included the criteria specifically mentioned

    ReplyDelete
  59. Great initiative!
    Why don't you use the UCI ranking points system?
    http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTU2MzU&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NDk5MDY&LangId=1

    ReplyDelete
  60. SE escribe INDURAIN NO INDURANI.
    Please, correct the mistake.
    I think Alberto Contador, his attacks are amazing

    ReplyDelete
  61. 1. Giro and Vuelta are less important then Tour de France.
    2. And where is Alfredo Bindo?
    According to your system:
    5*9(5giro)+43*2(total wins in rounds)+3*3(3time WC)+2*3(milan san remo)+4*1(lombardia)+1*2(point jersey) + 1*3(giro 2d)=
    155 points, making him the second best after Mercxk. This of course isn't right but he should be in top 10.

    ReplyDelete
  62. I'm currently doing something very similar to you in order to determine the greatest, but I decided to use WorldTour classification (grands tours top 20 are awarded points and top 5 for each stage), top 10 for 1-week stage races (top 5 for each stage) and top 10 for all important classics (with more points for monuments).

    Putting all of this on an Excel sheet takes me around 2 hours for 1 year and I'm all the way back to 1992 right now. So, all results from 1992 to 2014 are added and so far, the top name isn't even mentionned on this page, altough it sits a few points in front of Armstrong and Jalabert (who still have some years to race, backwards) is Davide Rebellin.

    ReplyDelete
  63. and where is Museeuw, Zülle, Fondriest, Bartoli, Tchmil, Boogerd, Sörensen.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Moyes Ingin Balas Dendam Di Old Trafford

    Berita terbaru dan terkini dari Agen Bola - Manajer Manchester United David Moyes ingin melakukan balas dendam atas kekalahan 2-0 timnya di tangan Olympiakos di leg pertama babak 16 besar Liga Champions di Karaiskakis Stadium, Rabu (26/2) dinihari WIB.
    City Holiday Terpercaya - Untuk bisa lolos ke perempat-final, The Red Devils membutuhkan kemenangan 3-0. Moyes yakin anak-anak asuhnya akan memiliki kebersamaan untuk mewujudkan ambisi itu.
    "Kami akan bersatu. Masih ada pertandingan kedua, dan Old Trafford memiliki sejumlah malam yang hebat. Saya antusias ingin mendapatkan satu malam lagi tersebut," ujar Moyes.
    "Satu hal yang bagus, masih ada leg kedua."
    "Saya rasa ada talenta yang tidak diragukan di Manchester United, tapi kami tidak menunjukkannya."
    Sumber http://cityholidaybet.com/

    ReplyDelete
  65. Ter Stegen Sudah Tes Medis Dengan Barcelona

    Berita terbaru dan terkini dari Agen Bola - Mengabarkan bahwa Barcelona telah sepakat untuk mendatangkan kiper Borussia Monchengladbach Marc-Andre ter Stegen.
    City Holiday Terpercaya - Tim asal Catalunya itu sebelum ini menyasar beberapa nama besar di posisi bawah mistar guna menggantikan Victor Valdes yang akan hengkang di akhir musim, dan kini tampaknya pilihan tersebut jatuh pada sosok muda asal Jerman.
    Tawaran Barcelona yang senilai 12 juta euro telah diterima dan mereka mengharapkan untuk segera menuntaskan transfer sang kiper dalam beberapa pekan ke depan.
    Sumber yang sama juga menyatakan bahwa Barca telah melakukan tes medis secara rahasia terhadap Ter Stegen di Monchengladbach pada pekan lalu.
    Adapun pada musim ini, kiper berusia 21 tahun itu telah tampil 22 kali di Bundesliga dengan mengemas enam clean sheets.
    Sumber http://cityholidaybet.com/

    ReplyDelete
  66. useful for the information that has been conveyed thanks a lot ya

    ReplyDelete
  67. thanks for the information,, the story is quite interesting to read, indeed for all the information should be written with a very interesting blog so that readers interested and pleased with your writing unit link terbaik di Indonesia Commonwealth Life investra link commlife.co.id

    ReplyDelete
  68. I think that this post would be great if you stopped ''swearing'' and joking about everything. Liked the top 25, though. But maybe if you grow up a little your ex may come back to you

    ReplyDelete
  69. have you recalculated Armstrong now that he's an admitted cheater and rightly stripped of many of his titles?

    ReplyDelete
  70. nah, the post is five years old at this point. others in this list have been stripped of titles since too, though surely not as many. and indicative of the realities of the sport, many others on the list tested positive as well.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Rodgers : Kontroversial, Tapi Liverpool Memang Lebih Baik

    Berita terbaru dan terkini dari agen bola Di Upton Park, Minggu (6/4/2014) malam WIB Liverpool meraih kemenangan 2-1 untuk merebut kembali puncak klasemen dari tangan Chelsea.
    Agen bolacity holiday Terpercaya - Kedua gol The Reds dibuat Steven Gerrard melalui eksekusi penalti, sementara gol tunggal tuan rumah dibuat Guy Demel pada penghujung babak pertama.
    "Ada keputusan-keputusan yang buruk dibuat wasit, yang menguntungkan kami dan yang merugikan kami. (Tapi) kami jelas tim yang lebih baik. Ujuar Rodgers.
    "Lapangannya kering, tuan rumah memutuskan tidak menyiramnya dan mempengaruhi kecepatan permainan kami. Itu keputusan tuan rumah," tutup Brendan Rodgers usai pertandingan.


    Sumber http://cityholidaybet.com/

    ReplyDelete
  72. Mourinho Ingin Enjoy

    Berita terbaru dan terkini dari agen bola -Untuk lolos ke babak semifinal, The Blues harus bisa mengalahkan PSG dengan skor 2-0 atau jika kebobolan, maka dibutuhkan selisih tiga gol saat berduel di Stamford Bridge, Rabu (9/3/2014) dinihari WIB.
    Agen bolacity holiday Terpercaya - Syarat yang memang tidak mudah bagi Chelsea. Namun begitu, 'Si Biru' telah memperoleh suntikan moral usai membungkam Stoke City 3-0 sebagai respons atas dua kekalahan yang diderita sebelumnya.
    "Kekalahan ketiga akan sangat buruk untuk kepercayaan diri kami terkait dengan pertandingan hari Selasa," ujar manajer Chelsea Jose Mourinho di Sky Sports.
    "Jika kami kebobolan satu gol atau sebuah clean sheet maka kami masih ada kesempatan. Jika kebobolan dua gol dan kami harus mencetak lima gol, kami akan gagal. Makanya penting bertahan dengan baik melawan Paris," tutup manajer kontroversial asal Portugal itu.

    Sumber http://cityholidaybet.com/

    ReplyDelete
  73. The Gunners Makin Kesulitan

    Berita terbaru dan terkini dari agen bola -Limabelas hari setelah dihantam Chelsea 0-6 di Stamford Bridge, Arsenal kembali menelan kekalahan telak.
    Agen bolacity holiday Terpercaya - Kali ini Goodison Park yang menjadi kuburan buat 'Gudang Peluru' saat mereka takluk 0-3 dalam lawatan ke Everton, Minggu (6/4/2014) malam WIB.
    "Everton lebih baik, lebih tajam dan layak menang. Satu-satunya momen di mana kami sepertinya akan bisa bangkit adalah di babak kedua, (tapi) kami lalu memberikan gol mudah (bunuh diri Arteta). Lalu semuanya berakhir," sahut Wenger usai pertandingan.
    "Saya tidak akan mempertanyakan semangat tim ini, tapi kami kehilangan kepercayaan diri. Kami terlihat tidak padu saat harus mencetak gol. Satyu lagi kekalahan besar saat menjalani laga tandang telah mengurangi karisma dari tim ini," tutup Wenger.

    Sumber http://cityholidaybet.com/

    ReplyDelete